forum: politics

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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
"Whether there is a direct correlation between worker's rights and freedom of speech is hardly debatable. One cannot speak up in the workplace anymore without risking termination. One has little recourse for unjust termination"

You're forgetting, however, that this issue isn't exactly relevant to this thread, which was only about the government taking away freedom of speech. I think a major problem many people have is that they confuse cultural censorship with governmental censorship. Getting fired because you spoke up to your boss is cultural censorship - the government isn't involved in any way there.

As for the stuff about the labor movement nosediving - that's a claim like any other and it needs to be supported. You're just making a grandiose statement without backing it up with facts.

I'm not going to get into the argument about nazis/the holocaust/Hitler because I'm sick of arguing the same thing twenty million fucking times, and there doesn't seem to be much of a point because it just steels everyone in their views and I very much doubt that anyone's going to be convinced.
posted by: BLANK on 2005-05-30 16:34:17
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
Grandiose statement, aye? I refer you to the following article:

http://www.laboreducator.org/orgrec50.ht...
posted by: --VVIIII/\/\/\-- on 2005-05-30 17:35:09
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
Here's another good article:

http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/reso...
posted by: --VVIIII/\/\/\-- on 2005-05-30 17:55:17
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
Whether isolated incident or not - Freedom of Speech is going to hell. And it is not the politicians largely - it is the fucking lawyer and law suit culture.

Fuck that!
posted by: Random Insults on 2005-05-30 18:50:57
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
william,
Ik3 was right in that what you are saying has more or less nothing to do with this thread. also, the articles you provided in no way back up the statement "Workers no longer have rights. Period." all those articles are saying is that there arent as many people in unions, and people in unions are getting fucked with. boo hoo.

Back in the 30s, unions were necessary. workers rights actually were being violated. lots of people were dying and starving because of their jobs. But its not like that anymore. now dudes in unions are on strike because they can't manage money and the 20 bucks an hour isnt good enough for them. and the guys that businesses bring in to replace these guys who dont were are called "scabs" and get harasses and beat up and maybe even killed. I know cause that shit has happened a few times in the industrial shithole i live in.


and as for the 40 hour work week, all most americans know how to do is fucking work, and they hate having real spare time. Workers rights are not being violated in serious way. Not on a large scale like it used to be.
posted by: Royce Icon on 2005-05-30 18:56:38
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
They show titties on primetime network TV over here in Europe. :D
posted by: R-23 on 2005-05-30 19:23:04
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
I see them a lot in Real Life TV.....
posted by: Random Insults on 2005-05-30 19:34:24
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
"Back in the 30s, unions were necessary. workers rights actually were being violated. lots of people were dying and starving because of their jobs. But its not like that anymore. now dudes in unions are on strike because they can't manage money and the 20 bucks an hour isnt good enough for them. and the guys that businesses bring in to replace these guys who dont were are called "scabs" and get harasses and beat up and maybe even killed. I know cause that shit has happened a few times in the industrial shithole i live in."

Wow, I can't believe you just said that. Perhaps you'd like to back up your claims of "corporate rights violations" with palatable evidence of "evil unions" abusing "innocent CEO's"? Or perhaps you'd like to explain to me why unions are no longer necessary? No, really. I could use a laugh. : D
Oh yeah, and for future reference, scabs deserve to get the shit kicked out of them.

"and as for the 40 hour work week, all most americans know how to do is fucking work, and they hate having real spare time. Workers rights are not being violated in serious way. Not on a large scale like it used to be."

The only reason people feel the need to work 40+ hours a week is to beat the competition, and the only people who feel the need to beat the competition are young, single business majors. Nobody else wants to work those kinds of hours. Most people have friends, and families to attend to. Most people don't wanna be stuck breaking their backs at work all day, everyday. A lot of people have children.
Worker's rights violations occur on a daily basis. As far as I'm concerned, any employee who works for a successful corporation, who is payed $5.15 an hour is having his/her rights violated. Everytime there is a job outsourced, or a wage needlessly slashed, it's a worker's rights violation.
Speaking of worker's rights; job securtiy is a complete joke, even if you're in a union. My mother's in a union, and it is within her employer's rights to terminate her if she "slams a door". When I worked at Denny's, they didn't even need a reason to terminate me... it stated as such in the contract. If I didn't sign the contract, I didn't get the job. I won't even go into the number of times they worked me overtime, off the clock, without pay. Oh yeah, and you try raising a family on minimum wage; see if anyone starves... Furthermore, try getting laid off on a day's notice, and see if anyone starves.
Since I am tired, I will not bother going into the amount of deaths resulting from deadly chemicals in rubber factories, and the such... but if you'd like to press the issue, I'm sure we can discuss it at length.
And as for the relevance of worker's rights to freedom in America... you can't have a free country without a free workplace. : )
Cheers,
William
posted by: --VVIIII/\/\/\-- on 2005-05-30 20:15:09
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
I haven't read the replies. Thought I'd just respond to your original post and then read what others had to say, so if I repeat some comments, please excuse me.

I'm pretty annoyed with people constantly talking about how freedom of speech and expression in America is a joke, especially people living in england, where they have the video nasties type shit. There are parts of europe that ban bondage videos and any type of non vanilla porn, places that still band fucking books. but america is the country that people talk about as being the great opresser.

Yes, but USA is the only country, as far as I know, that states that freedom of speech is a basic human right in its constitution. I think many people bag on the USA because of the apparent hypocrisy in this country. Unfortunately, hypocrisy in general has been growing on many levels in this country, specially within the last several years.

Yes, on the surface the USA is one of the most free countries in the world. However, what I find alarming is not the blatant form of sensorship, where for example the FCC starts fining radio stations left and right for "indecent" content, but the more subtle sensorship which doesn't even look like one.

Let me explain with an example. When I used to live in the USSR, the government tried to run a campain to block a shortwave radio program called "Voice of America", which is an american propaganda station broadcast on shortwave radio, specifically intended for foreign countries (broadcast in at least 50 languages). I would also like to add that all the radios in the soviet countries included AM, FM as well as shortwave frequencies, as standard. When I asked my grandfather what he thought of the whole ban thing, he said that USSR had a point, because in the USA almost 100% of the radios lack shortwave, thus the american public is automatically blocked from receiving foreign broadcasts.

Of course you can counter that by saying that if someone wants a shortwave radio, they can purchase one... however, the fact remains a fact that not too many people are even aware of the existence of shortwave radio.

Along those same lines, it strikes me how little an average american knows about the rest of the world, compared to people living in other progressive, 1st and 2nd world countries. In the USA this is apparent how US-centric information and entertainment is. The only time we hear about some foreign country is when there is some US involvement. The news media in other countries is far more inclusive. Same goes for pop music and movies. In general if you want to see some foreign movie, you'll have to either go to a festival or rent it on video. When was the last time you saw a French or Italian movie?

As oppressive as USSR was, when we lived there, we were far more aware of what was going on in the rest of the world. Then again, in USSR you'd be sent to Siberia if your music was "too western" as they did to Alfred Schnitke...

Now, I don't think this is completely down to some conspiracy, although I do believe that there is some element of it going on at the corporate and federal level. For example it immensely benefits the US drug companies for FDA not to allow foreign medicine imports. Also, it is far easier to control public opinion when they only hear a one sided opinion about some subject matter. However, this also has a lot to do with the fact that the US population is also quite US centric and foreign subject matter, or foreign entertainment products don't necessarily sell very well.

Whatever the reasons, lack of information is also a form of sensorship, albeit a much subtler one, which by its nature is far more dangerous due to its "stealth" nature.
posted by: noisewreck on 2005-05-31 01:21:59
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comment :: re: Freedom in America.
Hey lucid.

I definitely agree that lack of knowledge is a huge form of censorship. I've been trying to learn more about differnt cultures, but it definitely is somewhat hard to do. Obviously this internet thing helps a lot. Americans are definitely extremely hedonistic fuckers, and for the most part extremely ignorant. I definitely understand why people hate us. as a country we try to inflict our morals and culture up everyone elses ass.but still, I dont think the freedom here is much less than most other countries.


As for the thing about freedom of speech in the constitution, I'm not sure. I've browsed the constitutions of portugal and japan, and they seem to be saying the same basic stuff, but i dont think "freedom of speech" per se is in there.


oh, and I like french and italian horror movies. The majority of stuff I watch now adays in foreign. I think the last french film I watched was in my skin.


And william, I allready said why I think unions are a joke. not much more to say on the issue except that i disagree. I agree that workers rights are integral to freedom, but what you have said dosent back up your initial statement at all.
posted by: Royce Icon on 2005-05-31 10:10:15
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