industrial.org

I am not sure whether it isn't a bit out of the real world to think that you in general can change people with some sort of underground music. Largely people do not care much. Those who do typically do not need to be converted - they do think on their own.

If you think you can change the world with music I would see rather frustrating times ahead. You can not even change the world much with more serious measures, e.g., research.

So, mostly - and for my part - I think it is more self-satisfaction to scream out the injustice into the universe. I do like to protest in my music - but I have given up the hope to even change a single person by doing so. In the end music is just that - music.

I have already changed peoples view on the world with my music. so dont doubt me. dont go false calling what my future is like, maybe it is yours but not mine. Dont be so pessimistic. My message is effective and works, people notice and that is a lot more rewarding than doing nothing.

scream and whine all you want in your music it doesnt define the philosophy which is what this thread was all about. How is there any philosophy is yelling at people? well maybe there is, but to each thier own.

wait ... did you hear me knocking you for your choices in how you get your message across? no. so dont knock mine. i mean maybe you failed at changing the world. i have not. every single medium i have used to do so has worked. besides i am not after the world. just one person. each time. one. and that is enough for me. very satisfying

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posted by: agent_black on 2005-10-03 14:58:08
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I don't have a specific philosophy with my music, I make what I like making, and i release what i think is the best of what I've made. I respect pushing peoples boundries, but most boundries have been pushed, and your art should have some substance other than just the "shock value", otherwise no one will give a shit.

The only real objective for me is to make some sort of dent in the world with my art. i could say i only want to effect one persons life, but thats a lie. I want hundreds if not thousand of people to get something from my art, as long asit effects them and i live on through it i dont care. I think i have more luck with this happening via my books rather than my music, but you never know.

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posted by: Royce Icon on 2005-10-03 15:56:16
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my music and the message is more that just shock value. in fact i am trying to drop a lot of the shock value. some of it cant be helped. for example

www.globalaware.ca

the messages they have are real similar to what i am trying to say.

i agree it needs to be more than shock or face value. or it is just crap

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posted by: agent_black on 2005-10-03 16:45:20
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That site is interesting. I think you do good by dropping a lot of the shock value as it is nearly impossible to shock the world. I mean, just watch the daily news - all full with shock and awe.....

I do agree with Royce in that probably the most profound change can be accomplished with not too much shock. As in his case with books, I found other artforms actually more suitable to convey a message. But then, who knows, maybe even music can change stuff. Probably better live though with some video in the background.

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posted by: Random Insults on 2005-10-03 17:25:42
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which is what we do.
live video in the back.
pamphlets to hand out. posters, all kinds of media to get our message across.

but enough of it. you wanna know more, either come see a show or by the dvd when it comes out. reguardless of if we dropped it or not, i could care less. becuase once again all you saw was a few pics and a few symbols of what we stand for. you failed to see the bigger picture and i could really care less. you guys are too critical of what it is or isnt or how industrial it is or isnt it totally takes the enjoyment out of it

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posted by: agent_black on 2005-10-03 19:05:25
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Man, stop this type of reply - drives the tears in my eyes. I think some already wrote your music is ok. This whining isn't going to give you any respect.

If you want to do something, respect is what you need. And only that. Stay your ground, defend it if necessary, but do not overgeneralize. Don't be hurt that "people" don't see the bigger picture. Two things might be true: people are idiots or your drawing of the big picture needs some improvement.

-kai

PS: I do not mean this in a bad way. I had my periods when I felt like that and also reacted like that. I just adjusted more to the I don't give a fuck philosophy and - people who doubt me and think I do shit will find my stuff on many compilations philosophy. Stay aggressive.

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posted by: Random Insults on 2005-10-03 23:46:03
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I have no intention on changing people's viewpoints on anything other than aesthetics, I think music used to push a political or social message is kind of rediculous when you think about it. Music is sound art, and I believe in art for arts sake. I think if you want people to go against a government instead of writing a song about it, write a book about it, its way more effective and makes a lot more sense, and people reading it would be able to make sense of your opinion using their reasoning.

Music on the other hand should be for the sake of aesthetics, becuase creating a sense of beauty in a person is what music does best, and that is what I strive to do, I don't care what the people who listen to my music think, as long as they can appreciate the beauty in the music and be able to let their minds go for a little bit. I think thats whay music should be about.

Strangly enough when THrobbing Gristle came up with his whole industrial music ideals, his goal was in a way to destroy music and aesthetics, take music back to the real raw brutal world, however what industrial music ended up doing (at least for me) was opening up other realms of aesthetics and beauty making the music more and more a other worldly experience. The highest form of music is the type of music that makes you forget about the physical world and leaves you in compleate awe and extasy. THAT is my philosphy behind my music.

I know its a bit Platonic but I do believe music should be something pure.

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posted by: gacky on 2005-10-04 19:17:00
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"The people that are soo brain-washed into beleiving that nazis are all evil no matter what they do or say (or even what they DONT do or say) they instantly react with a very sever close-minded blind hatred."

I don't hate you for your cheap gimickry, I just think you're a bloody idiot.

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posted by: CausticPleasures on 2005-10-08 18:24:22
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CausticPleasures, you don't know me & you have no right to judge me. who the fuck are you anyhow? i haven't seen you here before, you think you can just come in here and start acting like as asshole right off the bat? GREAT first impression. it's ok tho, i'll just add you to my shitlist =)

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posted by: LoHr on 2005-10-09 11:00:41
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sorry for the lack of introduction, this is Creep; I had assumed that you were referencing the response to your last stint on DS. honestly though, how can you be surprised or offended by responses like this when you are explicitly inviting it.

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posted by: CausticPleasures on 2005-10-09 13:25:02
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This site has nothing to do with DS - I would leave DS history at DS. People can change. Lohr has not posted anything offensive here in quite some time and is contributing like anyone else. We happen to not like each other too much, but we try to keep this out of the public. Also, we decided that we won't discuss politics with each other.

Just my thoughts.

-kai

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posted by: Random Insults on 2005-10-09 13:35:15
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Noisewreck just makes good music. Very good music. The soundclick stuff is awesome and I listen to it a lot on my radio station.

-kai

Thanks man. Likewise. Still haven't been able to listen to Mental in its entirety, but Neuclear Winter gave me goosebumps. :)

Oh, and CP... dude, chill. Personally, I see LoHr's viewpoint, and frankly I'm sick and tired of the hypocircy. How many of those Nazi "doctors" were invited to the US to continue their "research"? And how much of the results of that have actually become part of daily medicine... stuff on hypothermia comes to mind.

The funny thing is, nobody is pointing out other nations or groups, or parties that have commited atorocities. No one says "the Turks are the worst nation", although they massacred about 1 million Greeks, 1.5 million Armenians, and quite a few Kurds during WWI, and are still to be held responsible for their crimes and pay restitution. The Turkish government is still denying any wrongdoing to this day. At least the Germans have been paying out of their ass for what one despot half-breed did once.

Nobody's talking about the atrocities commited by the Indonesian government, where they've been consistently whiping out the indigenous people of Indonesia... the number of dead has passed the 50 million mark... AND the US and some European governments are supporting the Indonesian murderers. Where else can companies like Nike find cheap labor?

So, please, shove your high-and-mighty attitude.

Nothing is black and white.

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posted by: noisewreck on 2005-10-09 18:16:22
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Alright, this is vaguely related to the topic at hand, but I've been wanting to say this for a while: I behaved like a complete and utter twat-face when I was a member of DS. It's been over a year now, and I just recently went back and read my old posts... man, I wanted to smack myself. That's not to say that I "like" the people there (although I no longer hate them), but God I was a fucking dipshit. So, ya, people do change.
Now that that's cleared up, I'm not taking sides in this argument. Why? Cuz I really don't care one way or the other. I have nothing against Lohr. That's all I'm gonna say.
Cheers,
Will

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posted by: --VVIIII/\/\/\-- on 2005-10-09 21:30:07
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So yes, I apologize for wasting everybody's time on Darksonus, including my own. I've permanantly damaged my reputation in the scene, and for what? It was fucking stupid.
I no longer use the handle I once used there; it carries too much bad press with it.
Tact has never been my strong suit, but I've never considered myself to be an idiot... hopefully, what happened there was an anomally. Everything's clear in retrospect... although, I honestly can't imagine what I was thinking.
At any rate, I obviously won't be joining again, cuz A) I'm too proud, and B) It's not my kind of site...
Cheers,
Will

PS: And yes, Satan will be skating to work today. I never thought I'd HONESTLY apologize for the DS fiasco.

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posted by: --VVIIII/\/\/\-- on 2005-10-09 23:43:43
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Wow... I never realized what a huge burden that was on my psyche. It feels REALLY great to get that off my chest... kind of like taking a huge dump after being constipated for three weeks. : )
Alright, I really am done posting now.
Later,
Will

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posted by: --VVIIII/\/\/\-- on 2005-10-09 23:50:58
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